Summit Journal Chat

In other news, I'm trying hard to get Jay here. He's either going to have to figure out his email filters or drop AOL. I know he's been trying very hard and is very frustrated but he can count on me to try very hard and then give it to him straight. Drop AOL would be my first recommendation.

Hi Guys,

I guess I'm the last person here to see Touching the Void. What a great, great movie! Brilliant the way they used Joe and Simon as narrators and nondescript actors to dramatize their climb and the aftermath. So, indeed, it is a documentary. I was thinking that it was a movie based on their true story and sometimes those can turn out kinda silly, like a movie of the week. Honestly, that's what kept me from watching it. But I think they did a great job cutting between the principles and the actors. Gorgeous cinematography and sound, too!

Whenever times get too rough and you think you cannot bear them anymore, remember Joe Simpson - a man who with a broken leg, who over three days climbed out of a crevasse and crawled, kicked, screamed his way down the mountain to miraculously find his friends. And of Simon Yates who made the excrutiating decision to cut the rope, then got a second chance with his friend.

magoo - An interesting quote and, I bet - a great read. There are plenty of instances where barnyard critters have portended the catastrophe of an earthquake or some other natural disaster. And though I might argue that we humans can be clueless at times - even compared to the brain of a chicken, I see no reason why we shouldn't share in as many natural gifts as our furred and feathered friends. Could it be that we only seem more blinded than they, perhaps by the light of our own intellect? When talking about cruxes, our own death is a huge one. I'd wager that there is seldom a time in our lives when it is not within our sights. In Castaneda's view, our death stalks us. What are the "snapping twigs" or "guttural groans"- real or imagined, to which we should hearken? And where is the greater risk? If we step back from that which is pure fantasy, what measure of life have we lost. But if we forge on into the fearsome face of reality, and inevitably to our death, did we not live the better for it? In these matters, like so many topics that surround the summits we haunt, the superficial must first be revealed, and then abandoned. Ultimately, the soul is private. So, without fail, it takes with it whatever it is that one beholds in the final moment, leaving the rest of us behind the door, sentenced to complete our own journey.

Hi Rose, you must have read this article recently: The Eves of the Killer Mountain

I've often wondered about Julie Tullis and her relationship with Kurt Diemberger. He obviously thought she was an excellent climbing partner and companion. If not for the storms those days she probably would have lived. Found this passage in Kurt's The Endless Knot:

"Did Julie know somehow in her heart of hearts that she would die up there? This was the only time in many years that she showed hesitation to push into the unknown - even though, in the end, still decided to go. I remember once on Nanga Parbat, just before setting out one day, having an urgent compulsion to make out my will - I only had time to scribble my signature on a piece of blank paper for my wife... and then I came back alive anyway. But is there a sixth sense that gives you a presentiment of the end, once you are close to it? As if a comet on collision course with a planet were conscious of the fact - or perhaps more aptly, a spaceship, conscious through its instruments before the crew were aware of the impending danger. Would the crew react to the warning - in time? The inner voice of individuals vary, even given the same situation, perhaps because their destined courses may be different. I am no fatalist, because most of what happens depends ultimately on the decisions taken."

I'm lucky enough to have a signed copy of The Kurt Diemberger Omnibus: Summit and Secrets, The Endless Knot, Spirits of the Air.

Rose, armchair or not, I think you've made an important point on the vagaries of weather and the fall season on Everest is an excellent example. After watching lenticular clouds repeatedly form over Denali in early May, I am not surprised that the overall "success" (and I enjoyed PBob's discourse) rate was lower this year. Of those who did summit, some of them got lucky, but I'm sure there were others who summitted because they were ready to go when the weather broke or were willing to try when the weather was less than optimal.

And that's what popped into my head about summitting K2--recalling those who were willing to switch routes and/or hang in there longer than others, that their determination was the deciding factor in their reaching the top. The "failure" of the first Whittaker attempt on K2 was mainly due to expending a tremendous amount of energy on a ridiculous route that would not go. Kudos for wanting to establish a new route, but I think their own response to the expedition made it evident that summitting was their yardstick of success.

from another armchair K2 climber,

Hi Gang! Just dropped in and was caught by the discussion of difficulty - real or vicarious. To my way of thinking - here's the crux. There isn't one - but there are many, though some are more common than others. A minor case study of this comes from one's own reflection on any two or more experiences of the same route, or event, or challenge. Inevitably, all of the experiences that we may have logged are not the same in our perception of quality. I have often marvelled at how something can be so easy in one instance, yet nearly impossible in the next. Mind over matter or matter over mind? Perhaps it's the Gods being more or less indifferent. With few exceptions, most cruces are subject to the vagaries of circumstances, most of which are beyond our control. When we fail to recognize that, mind over matter steps in and we warp beyond our typical selves, in a vain attempt to conform all those vagaries to our view of reality. Were it not this way, I doubt that we would have events such as the Olympics to ponder - or wars for that matter.

And so we go off to conquer mountains, claiming the top as our singular prize - if we should make it. But climbers know it's not about the top. It's about the route and there are precious few of them that will roll over and play dead. Yates and Simpson did a fine job of revealing that to us, but only because they survived to tell it. Mountain climbing is a guerilla war that depends more on stealth than a noisy march to make it up the hill.

Hi Tim,
I'm sure you are right about skill and conditioning really being the reasons people get to the top of K2. But it seems as if there is a lot of bad weather - which can defeat even the best prepared. It seems like that is the case for Annapurna as well. And avalanches seem to be treacherous on both -so a heavy snow year seems to put the summit out of reach. It seems to me that very few well prepared folks come back from Everest defeated by the weather - except in the fall. In the years that I have been observing the Everest spring season, it seems as if almost everyone one gets a decent shot at the summit if they can stick around through the end of May. But admittedly that is a very superficial analysis by an armchair climber. :-)

Best regards,
Rose

Hi Carrie,
On TTV - I only beat you by a couple of months and that was just by being in the right place at the right time. Before I left on my trip I checked the NYT to see where it was playing in NYC so that I could see it on my return trip. To my disappointment (then) it was no longer playing there !!! Then good ole American Airlines had the courtesy to show it on the airplane . (amazing as I had planned to read because there weren't any recent movies that I wanted to see. )

Best regards,
Rose

I finally watched Touching the Void last night. I'm probably the last person on this blog to do so! I thought they did a great job with the movie/documentary. Even though I knew what was going to happen, I still found myself tense with anticipation, especially during Joe's solo descent of the mountain in such pain. I have yet to watch the extras on the DVD which, for lots of movies I watch, add to my enjoyment of the movie with the "behind the scenes" information.

Here is an article from MountainZone.com regarding Chantal Mauduit's death in which the editor remarks "The Mountain Zone's reports (below) were intended to shed some light on the accident as quickly as possible. The editors regret if Ed Viesturs' remarks, intended to provide information on the tragedy when none was available elsewhere, were misinterpreted as being critical of Chantal Mauduit."
http://classic.mountainzone.com/news/mauduit.html

Nice story on the Basque woman who summitted K2:

http://www.k2climb.net/story/stories/EdurnePasabanK2summitVerticallimitforrealJul282004.shtml

It's a shame I hadn't heard more about her, obviously she has been out climbing instead of promoting herself!

i don't know the trick to creating "hot links" here, I guess my one success was blind luck.

Rose, I think you are on the right track, although I would hazard a guess that luck is not a dominant factor in summitting K2.

Realistically, women have had a chance to summit K2 for only the past 20 years or so(remember the stink created when Lou Whittaker's wife, or was it Jim's?, wanted a shot?). Nearly all the K2 expeditions have been invitation only, which would probably mean a lower proportion of women climbers on K2.

The relatively low number of overall attempts, coupled with a low success rate (of all climbers) should be considered. I don't have the stats to attempt this, but it might be interesting to examine the success rate of the women who have had the chance to climb K2 and how it compares to the men.

And don't forget Stacy Allison, the first American woman to summit Everest. She led a K2 expedition in 1993 where I believe two team members summitted. She relegated herself to an organizational and support role on that climb.

Women will make up 25% of our team in Peru (one out of four) ;-) And it may be one out of three if a bone spur on my foot doesn't behave itself.